What does genocide have to do with voting though? Is there a choice? With abortion there is.
Yes Kamala is in favor of a two state solution and thinks more should be done to protect the innocents caught in the middle, and Trump told Netanyahu to “finish the job”.
Quite the choice.
two state solution
That’s the thing they say when they mean „I don’t give a shit people are dying, israel does what it wants”
Ah I was thinking it was genocide vs genocide+. But that’s an even easier choice then.
So Trump is honest and Kamala lies to get votes?
Guess who “is in favor of a two state solution” as well: Biden says he’s pushing a 2-state solution. Let’s put him to the test.
Liberal memory capacity is a sight to behold.
Jill Stein. No one said you have to pick your favorite of the 2 Hitlers to vote for.
There are plenty of voting choices against Genocide. They just so happen to not be Democrat (or Republican).
So… No?
Jill Stein, Cornel West, even the Libertarians if you’re more right wing.
So your options are three people who have absolutely no chance of getting even a single electoral college vote, let alone a majority. Or in other words, to potentially feed the spoiler effect.
Being a single issue voter doesn’t make sense at the best of times, but when it means you’re voting for someone who has no chance of winning and potentially helping an even worse candidate get into office, it’s even worse. If we had ranked-choice voting on a nationwide count, it wouldn’t be as bad (and would be fine if after you’d voted for those candidates on the one issue you actually weighed in between the major candidates), but that’s sadly not the world in which we live.
Go ahead and vote third party if you’re in a state like Alabama where there’s no chance of a difference regardless. But in a swing state, third party votes can and do add up to lives lost.
What’s there to spoil?
Well purely on the genocide topic… While both major parties appear to be okay with one genocide, only one of them appears to want to do their own genocides within the US.
There’s a difference between doing it against foreign brown people or American brown people?
Voting for them = throwing your vote away
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d67f1c33-fef7-4c7b-ab9c-0bca58799c50.jpeg
If the percentage of third party voters gets high enough Hillary will give a very angry speech about the “radical left”.
If the percentage of third party voters gets high enough, Trump wins. We’re not making that mistake again.
There is no such thing as magic in this world, but if there was a magic genie that would let me bet my life that one of those people you mentioned would not be president six months from now, in exchange for a Twix ice cream bar, even if you had convinced the entirety of all lemmy federated servers to vote for them, I think I’d take it up.
Except for southern “blue dog” Democrats, Abortion is a relatively “safe” topic to pander to single-issue voters on because the only people hyper-opposed to it are single-issue voters on the other side who were never going to vote liberal anyways. There’s virtually no down-side.
Israel is a more thorny & nuanced issue for Democrats though and not as clear cut. Israel is committing genocide and we shouldn’t be supporting them, but there’s alot of Jewish-American voters in key states, you’ve got AIPAC and a plethora of other Jewish/Israeli lobbies with alot of influence, you’ve got big military contractors who like Israeli money, and then you’ve got bigwigs in the military who see Israel as a strategic partner. Completely dropping support for Israel risks upsetting alot of interests and handing them over to Republicans to be used against Democrats. It’s shitty, but I’m assuming that’s the calculus going on with Democratic leadership.
Also, Israel is much much less reliant on the US for aid than in times past, and I think there’s a fear that if we stop supplying them, somebody else will and then we’ll have absolutely no influence over anything they do. We have much less influence over them than alot of people think. If they saddle up with China or Russia, the gloves come off and I think we’d see it much worse than it is now. As hard as that is to imagine, it can always get worse. And if we let Republicans get control, it will get worse.
Also, Israel is much much less reliant on the US for aid than in times past, and I think there’s a fear that if we stop supplying them, somebody else will and then we’ll have absolutely no influence over anything they do.
It seems like the prevailing narrative tries as hard as it can to bury this fact. Unilaterally withdrawing aid doesn’t magically make Israel stop what they’re doing, they can easily get support elsewhere. All unilaterally withdrawing does is throw away our only real bargaining chip to try and nudge them toward ceasefire.
Who else is going to provide military aid to Israel? They are increasingly a pariah state
sooo what you’re saying is… MONEY MONEY MONEY!
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Look who showed up
Removed by mod
I never really got this. Sure, we ALL want world peace, but what are you expecting to happen?
Israel is attacking Palestine, so I understand Palestinians wanting to protect themselves, and take out terrorists, but blowing up random israelis is NOT the way to do it.
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this response. I agree with the reversal completely. I’m willing to listen, because I am sympathetic to all the very real destruction happening over there, but can you explain how shitting on Harris benefits Palestine at all?
Very simple. Enough people withhold their votes and the Democrats will be forced into a ceasefire
Do you think Joe Biden retired for funsies? They looked at the polling and dumped him. And as I was right about before, while everyone told me otherwise, nobody likes Biden anyway.
You say they’ll be forced into a cease fire. Do you think that’s something they can just flip a switch and make it so? That’s an ongoing war on the other side of the planet involving at least three groups of people. In the meantime, you withhold your vote and Trump becomes president again. Now what?
We gotta get Harris there before we start asking her for favors.
Do you think that’s something they can just flip a switch and make it so?
Yes quite literally in one phone call. Do you not think israel is fully dependent on the US?
We gotta get Harris there before we start asking her for favors.
Why do you think the Palestinians should suffer from three more months of Genocide? The Democrats are in power right now.
Harris has already stated she will keep shipping weapons to israel this week.
Ok, so let’s assume there is no change in the US stance on Gaza. You and anyone you’ve convinced, don’t vote. Trump supporters are unaffected. Trump is now president. Then what? Have you made the world a better place?
Standing up to Genocide is a game of chicken. It means potentially losing if the total amount of chickens is too big.
If enough voters grow a spine however the Democrats have no option but conceding or face certain loss.
Enough people withhold their votes and the Democrats won’t have the power to do anything about a ceasefire, but Donald “finish the job” Trump will have the power to make the genocide even worse.
Good thing Democrats have the power to force a ceasefire right now and need exactly 0 votes to do so.
They don’t. But even assuming they did, withholding a vote is going to increase the chances of a party who want to make things worse getting into power.
Your choices are between a terrible status quo and making the situation even worse. Why are you so intent on defending the choice that makes things worse?
Do you know how a strike works?
Most liberals kinda hate anti-abortion single-issue voters though…
They love pro abortion single-issue voters though.
Which there are far, far more of.
Do they? Most liberals I’ve spoken to on the topic seem to mostly be glad that people who were previously anti-abortion single-issue voters are now realising that their previous stance was perhaps not the best idea.
Who’s the anti-genocide candidate in this election?
Jill Stein, Cornel West orLibertarians.
How are their chances?
Less than zero
