Cable companies, advertising firms, and newspapers are asking courts to block a federal “click-to-cancel” rule that would force businesses to make it easier for consumers to cancel services. Lawsuits were filed yesterday, about a week after the Federal Trade Commission approved a rule that “requires sellers to provide consumers with simple cancellation mechanisms to immediately halt all recurring charges.”

The 5th Circuit is generally regarded as the nation’s most conservative, but the 6th Circuit also has a majority of judges appointed by Republican presidents. When identical lawsuits are filed in multiple circuits, the Judicial Panel on Multidistrict Litigation randomly selects a court to handle the case.

The NCTA cable lobby group, which represents companies like Comcast and Charter, have complained about the rule’s impact on their ability to talk customers out of canceling. NCTA CEO Michael Powell claimed during a January 2024 hearing that “a consumer may easily misunderstand the consequences of canceling and it may be imperative that they learn about better options” and that the rule’s disclosure and consent requirements raise “First Amendment issues.”

“Too often, businesses make people jump through endless hoops just to cancel a subscription,” FTC Chair Lina Khan said. “The FTC’s rule will end these tricks and traps, saving Americans time and money. Nobody should be stuck paying for a service they no longer want.”

  • ZapBeebz_@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    118
    ·
    1 month ago

    a consumer may easily misunderstand the consequences of canceling and it may be imperative that they learn about better options

    See, if it’s easy to cancel, then a consumer can leave your service, try something else, and then cancel that and come back if they don’t like the alternative.

    Also, imperative for who? Your bottom line?

    • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      52
      ·
      1 month ago

      Also wouldn’t the argument apply to subscribing as well? Consumers may not understand the consequences of subscribing to said service. Therefore, “click to subscribe” should also be banned.

    • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      ·
      1 month ago

      I read this as: “the customer has contract terms with us, where if they cancel they must pay termination fees and other fees where applicable and if they cancel they might financially harm themselves”

      To which the obvious response would be, well you would list those on the page that you click. (But also… why your business model rely on cancelation fees?)

      • ByteJunk@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        1 month ago

        Definitely then the issue lies with click to subscribe, and not with click to cancel.

        If the customer is insufficiently informed of any penalties for cancelling, then he shouldn’t have been allowed to subscribe in the first place.

  • w3dd1e@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    57
    ·
    edit-2
    1 month ago

    I’m so sick of the 5th Circuit. We need legislation to end judge shopping. Every damn article about some terrible decision seems to come out of the Fifth Circuit.

    “We live in the United States of Texas, Louisiana & Mississippi.” —The American Prospect

  • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    44
    ·
    1 month ago

    Just for reference: in my State (somewhere in Latin America), since 2007, we have a law that TL;DRs to “if you offer a service through a certain mean, you must offer the cancellation method through the same mean; plus by phone, or internet, or snail mail”.

    It works like a charm because, contrariwise to what Michael Powell is claiming, customers aren’t such disgustingly stupid trash that will “accidentally” hit the cancel button, nor they deserve to be punished by making cancellation a fucking pain in the arse. (There’s probably similar laws elsewhere.)

  • empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    42
    ·
    edit-2
    1 month ago

    But, Calling and threatening “I want to cancel” is the only way to get them to lower the $120 fuck-you price back to the market accurate $40 I signed up for.

    • apocalypticat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      21
      ·
      1 month ago

      You can still threaten to cancel. It will be even more effective when the power of cancelling is in your hands instead of theirs, and as easy as one click. Not sure if you were being sarcastic.

    • BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 month ago

      I wish the FTC would tackle that next. Why should I pay twice as much for the exact same service my neighbor has because they signed up a month ago? I don’t mind rewards being given for signing up but the first bill (aside from installation fees) shouldn’t be any lower than mine.

      Internet also needs to be regulated like a utility because it basically is one at this point.

      • 418_im_a_teapot@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 month ago

        Friendly reminder that under Obama internet service providers we were classified as utilities under Title II of the Communications Act of 1934.

        Trump appointed Shit Pie, who reversed that rule as well as the net neutrality rule.

        People, if you haven’t already, please vote.

    • thesohoriots@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 month ago

      My phone plan just dropped the $10/month discount for autopay because they’re price-gouging shit garglers. The second I clicked on the “port out number” option, they put up a banner offering $10/mo off for the next year. I do appreciate not waiting three hours on the phone just to turn down the offer anyway. MVNO it is!

  • Sam_Bass@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    36
    ·
    1 month ago

    if im cancelling, you trying to talk me out of it is not only a waste of my time it is a fruitless endeavor. just cut it and move on,leeches

    • lepinkainen@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      1 month ago

      But usually the retention departments have the most leeway to give you discounts 😀

      Just call and threaten to cancel and suddenly you get 50% off for 6 months or something.

      (Works very well with Audible, the further you go in the cancel flow on the website, the bigger discounts you get - you can repeat the “I quit” threat about once a year.)

        • Dozzi92@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 month ago

          I have great service. I just hate that I have to play the game of “pretending to cancel”.

          • Sam_Bass@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 month ago

            my current service is also pretty good. the one i got when i moved here 4 years ago was trash though. not for anything they did other than advertise availability here which was sketchy about a week after i signed up. held on for a year hoping it would improve since the area was seeing more people locating in the area but nope. same crappy service. so cancelled and went back to a previous vendor as they had been making acquisitions nearby.

            • Dozzi92@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 month ago

              I have been very fortunate to have good service for essentially the entirety of my life of broadband. Only going back to when optimum first showed up, they were the only game in town, and it would have issues during times of day when there was too much traffic at the node. Since FiOS showed up (not to shill), it’s honestly been phenomenal, when you put aside the typical bullshit the providers pull. The actual service of packets in packets out, or whatever the Internet is, has been great.

  • DaddleDew@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    30
    ·
    edit-2
    1 month ago

    When I want to cancel I want to cancel. I don’t want to be put in line for over half an hour and then have to have a painful argument with some poor employee who gets punished if I somehow figure out the secret code that makes them cancel the account. And then have to do it all over again one month later because the account didn’t cancel because of “technical problems”.

  • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    28
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 month ago

    The fact that they are able to make these arguments and a judge takes it seriously… Is all you need to know who rules the peasants.

    First Amendment now protects a corpos right to fuck you over.

    But when private comapany blocks your speech on their platform for any reason is not 1a issue?

    Hmmm, do these clowns have to be logically consistent or do they just win every time.

  • linearchaos@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    23
    ·
    1 month ago

    They made their own bed here by making it so ridiculously hard.

    I was going to a gym and I moved to get out of that $20 a month contract I had to write a letter and deliver it to them by hand.

    When I canceled my DirecTV service I was on the phone for over an hour. Half of that was spent waiting for someone.

    If you want me to have to talk to somebody before exiting a contract I’m okay with that but I need to talk to them right then and I need them to take no for an answer.

    Also the whole raising the rates until people terminate and then offering them lower rates is absolute bullshit

    • yonder@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      1 month ago

      I think waiting on the phone for an hour just to argue with someone to cancel a subscription is reasonable, as long as the signup process also involved waiting on the phone for an hour before an agent tried to talk you out of buying the service.

      But if I signed up on a website in 30 seconds, it should take tine or less to unsubscribe on the same website.

  • Grangle1@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    22
    ·
    1 month ago

    Well, no shit, that’s what the rule is SUPPOSED to do! No more impossible-to-cancel subscriptions, please.

  • Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    20
    ·
    1 month ago

    “Won’t someone please think of the shareholders‽”

    Sucks to suck, I’m so looking forward to easy cancellation from services.

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      13
      ·
      1 month ago

      I really hope they roll this out to all services, including:

      • gyms
      • banks
      • insurance

      If the customer really wants to undo it after, I’m sure the company can help with that…

      • slaacaa@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 month ago

        As someone living in the EU, I am shocked by these stories.

        In my home country in the east you, you can basically cancel most things monthly, or just stop paying, and they’ll figure it out and kick you off the service after a few weeks.

        In Germany it can be a bit more annoying, but cancellation is always legally well regulated.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 month ago

          Things are usually pretty easy, but there are bad actors in each case. Most gyms will end your service if you stop paying, but some will consider it debt and hit your credit until you pay. Likewise for most banks and some insurance companies. To “properly” close these services can require a fair amount of effort, such as physically going to the gym/branch to cancel, mailing a specific form, or calling and waiting on hold on the phone to get to a rep. It’s usually pretty easy, but there are a lot of companies that make it as difficult as they think they can get away with.

          I’m sure a lot of it is technically illegal, but very few people will actually file a lawsuit.

          That said, most of the time it’s perfectly reasonable, which is why it’s important to check how the customer service is before signing up for something.

  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    1 month ago

    Do gyms next.

    Oh, and can we also extend this to banks? Sometimes closing a bank account or credit card is like pulling teeth (have to call between 9-5 EST, must navigate stupid phone menu first, then you need to listen to and agree to a disclosure agreement, etc. If I want to cancel, I should be able clear the account and cancel.

    • Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      1 month ago

      My gym required me to go the location I signed up and cancel in person lul. I just told them I don’t live in the country anymore and I’m calling from abroad, they can either cancel or get charge backed. They canceled quick.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 month ago

        Hopefully, but many gyms don’t have a website, or if they do, no way to manage subscriptions there. I doubt they’d force companies to create a website just for this, they would just require cancelling to be as easy as signing up (that often requires signing a contract and whatnot).

        • umami_wasabi@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          1 month ago

          If you can sign up on website, you cancel on website. If you sign up in person, you cancel in person. At least I believes the new rule is like this. It will be very weird for FTC only make this applicable to certain subscriptions, not universally applied.

    • CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 month ago

      I think a bank should be more complex. If you have all sorts of auto drafts, withdraws, checks, etc. you’ll want to make sure you got all of those.

      It should absolutely be simpler but I don’t mind an extra check for banks where all your money is held.

      Services like gyms and Netflix, they don’t have any excuse. My life will not be as adversely affected as cancelling a bank account.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 month ago

        I’d be okay with a rule, like “zero balance and no outgoing transfers,” with a popup that says “any pending checks will be bounced and the bill sent to you” and other various policies. But there really shouldn’t be any need to call in or visit a branch.

  • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    1 month ago

    Fuck the circuits. It’s absolute bullshit that entities can game the system and shop for “favorable” judges because of the appellate courts.

  • BigMacHole@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    17
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 month ago

    Good! Even though I HATE these BULLSHIT Services that cost me THOUSANDS a Year that I can’t Opt Out of it’s in MY Best Interest to let Corporations SCREW ME because I’m a Republican who HATES Corporations but I Hate GAY KIDS More something something TRANS ON ME!

  • Etterra@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    1 month ago

    Yeah even if you literally cannot get their service and they have to cancel you (which happened when I moved) they still talk and talk and talk way more than is necessary for a cancellation. They even look up your location data so they can confirm what you already told them their own app said, screw these fuckers.

    I swear if you’re the kind of sociopath that’s pro-Trump, them saving this rule alone should be enough to get you to vote Harris.