If I’m a liberal, that would make you a turbo liberal. You guys keep throwing that word around, I’m not sure you even know what it means at this point. What kind of liberal wants total worker ownership and control of production? That is antithetical to the free enterprise fundamentals of liberalism.

If you oppose my actual beliefs (not the ones you made up and assumed based off of nothing) then you oppose your own beliefs, as Marx himself believed that a socialist state was required to be implemented before it could serve its purpose and wither away. If you oppose the implementation of socialism, you oppose communism. I merely suggest we implement socialism and go from there, see where things lead us. I don’t think the state would ever be able to wither away, as there will always be some need to facilitate the regulations decided upon, and we are long past the scales of community that allow that to happen autonomously. Apparently that’s such a radical notion that it makes me liberal. You guys are trying so hard to shift the Overton window, but the window has to at LEAST stay on the wall. You can’t shift left further left than you guys are, so just because someone isn’t ALL THE WAY left, doesnt mean that they are on the right.

Not that you guys are capable of arguing in good faith, anyways.

Lmao I thought you wanted to move this discussion to your safe space, but your coward moderators banned me for literally just engaging with you. You guys are so fragile it’s hilarious. Carbon copy of The_Donald cosplaying as revolutonaries.

Damn, that’s a lot of wrong assumptions about me you just made. I can see that you lack the intelligence to actually see that I never really said much about my own ideology, so basically anything that you just tried to claim about me was pulled deep from inside your anus, and is objectively wrong. For the most part I actually support even communist states, but my main criticism with actual communist states is their authoritarianism, made easy by the inherent totalitarianism of communism.

Big problem with your criticism tho: there aren’t any true socialist states that exist today. There aren’t any states that have successfully fully implemented a socialist society today. A society where the actual individual workers own and control all the means of production, where all basic needs are met, and people are guaranteed the right to their freedoms. I absolutely support and laud the people out there working to achieve those goals. I don’t think any state will ever be able to perfectly achieve those goals, so I don’t expect perfection out of my fellow socialists. I do expect the abolition of the class, however, and that has never really even been close to being achieved. Not for a lack of trying, but because there is always some asshole who wants to be above others, and they have been very good at fucking things up for the rest of us.

And, you know, that gets me thinking… this whole conversation is exactly what capitalists want; infighting. You think I’m not radical enough for you, so you then label me as completely opposed to you. The problem is, I can guarantee we share a great many ideals, but you are too busy gatekeeping to allow others with slightly different but reconcilable ideals to be allies.

That is, of course, if I suspend my disbelief that you are a capitalist troll who is spitting vitriol, trying to make communists look belligerent and inhospitable.

What are you even talking about? This is the least comprehensible comment I’ve seen here. Everything you’ve said here has nothing to do with anything I’ve said; it’s the trifecta of straw man, non sequitur, and red herring. And using terms for logical argumentation doesn’t make me pedantic, it makes me able to precisely detail why and how your logic doesn’t work. I can see why you are afraid of that.

And, predictably, when all else fails, you basically resort to “no u”

Lmao, you are one to talk about being pretentious. Hypocrisy is definitely your watchword.

Also, dont know why my comment said libertarian, definitely meant to write liberal and my shit must have autocorrected. I definitely have a political ideology, and its democratic socialism, which staunchly criticizes Marxist-leninist ideology. Like I said before, I dont agree with your philosophy but that doesnt make me a liberal or right-wing or anything. We agree on a lot of fundamental ideals, but theres a lot of disconnect, too.

I know you folk always have a “you’re with me or you’re against me” attitude, which makes sense considering your authoritarian nature. I think its just fun how easy it is to set you off. I mean, I can leave one half-baked comment and you guys swarm like vultures! I can see how the gish gallop is so successful.

Why are you lot so obsessed with reddit? Can’t you leave that place behind? I mean, haven’t you ever thought that people on reddit talk the way they do because its how most people online in general talk? Reddit didn’t invent linguistic trope. I digress.

And what makes you think I am a libertarian? What makes you think I support capitalism? Just because I don’t directly support your exact ideology doesn’t mean you get to straw man the criticism away. You and your ilk with that and ad hominem, or some other fallacy. Never able to directly hold an argument on it’s own merits. It’s fuckin hilarious lmao

Who the fuck is anita sarkeesian?

And what makes you think I’m a liberal?

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Damn, we found their trigger word! Lesser evil! LESSER EVIL!

It’s funny how hypocritical you are right now, too. You wanna label “liberals” as fascist, but get all pissy when the same happens to you with the same amount of credibility.

What’s funny is that you lot all seem to fail to realize that “Liberalism” is not inherently left or right wing, unless you are a reductionist who doesn’t believe that social liberalism exists and only believe Classic Liberalism exists. You all talk big about your political knowledge and how nuanced your beliefs are, and then you fall victim to the classic conservative notion of reductionism. Seeing “lib” used as an insult around here is just as hilariously pathetic as all the “snowflake” shit

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Nah I’m pretty sure it’s the same reason why Hannah Montana and Miley Cyrus are never seen in a room together

What instances are you people browsing on??? In both lemm.ee and lemmy.world I see one or two posts about Trump and then nothing for like 3 pages… I see one meme with his mugshot and one news article on lemmy.world, and lemm.ee has the same meme and the politics megathread. I have to scroll pretty deep after that to see anything else even mentioning him.

Am I just extremely lucky or something?!

Um, “the state” is whatever the government is. Are you actually suggesting that True Anarchy is the only leftist organizational structure that can fit the definition of “Leftist”? Because that’s what you are alluding to.

Also, you absolutely did not provide the “definitions of left and right”. These definitions aren’t even universally agreed upon. I am assuming you mean “Liberalism and Conservatism” when you say “left and right”, and it is just untrue that Liberalism is incompatible with authoritarianism, and it is equally untrue that conservatism must be accompanied by authoritarianism. For example, Libertarianism is a patently right-leaning ideology that completely rejects authoritarianism. At the same time, communism is state-imposed redistribution of economic means; that is 100% undeniably a left-leaning ideology that accepts and implements authoritarianism.

State-imposed collectivism is left-leaning authoritarianism. It is the authoritarian and non-voluntary implementation of leftist economic policy. It is an extremely simple concept that I cant fathom how you aren’t able to grasp.