It’s not easy, nor is it impossible. Organizing is simply hard, and thus we need to see what has worked for others.

You’re drawing a line between workers and party members without backing that in class analysis. The Party is made up of workers, the most politically advanced among them. Marx did not advocate for direct democracy at every level, the form of Democracy in AES is Proletarian Democracy.

What do you mean by “independent unions” being suppressed? Solidarity with what in Poland was suppressed? What is the real force being suppressed here, and is it in the interests of the working class or against it?

Back to the “Elite” argument. What do you believe the “Administration of Things” looks like? Planners and government offiicals are not distinct classes, just like in a business the middle managers are not a class distinct from the Workers. Classes are based on ownership and power, by all historical analysis the Class in power in AES is the Proletariat.

Again, you repeat yourself with respect to the purges and cultural revolution. How did they stifle worker ability to shape society? You aren’t doing analysis here, just repeating a thesis you still need to prove.

The reason you should fall under some degree of label is because Marxists believe theory must be tested by practice. Those who don’t belong to an org and don’t adopt a label that can at least mostly be applied to themselves serve as extremely out of touch with the rest of Marxists, who daily discuss and work to come to a better understanding of theory and practice.

I’m a Marxist-Leninist, for example, and think your outright rejection of Lenin to be a dogmatic error. Is there a label you mostly fit under?

1. How are workers “excluded from meaningful control?” Again, you don’t say anything about how or why.

2. I need to see some examples of “crushing independent unions and dissent.” What unions, and what dissent?

3. What is an “elite?” What does worker ownership look like in your eyes that differs from the democratic structures in AES? Further, the real material gains for the Working Class is a signifier of the Socialist model, AES worked for the Proletariat above all else.

4. What debate and autonomy was suppressed? What are you saying should have been allowed?

As for why I am asking if you’re a Marxist and what you’ve read, it’s so I can fill in the blanks you are leaving. There’s no discussion being had here, every time I ask for clarification you get more and more vague. If you explained that you’re an Orthodox Marxist, as an example, I know where you’re coming from and can fill in the gaps. If you say you’re a Trot, I can also understand where you’re working from. This isn’t about power-level scaling with reading lists, I want to know where you’re drawing your conclusions from, because your analysis contradicts the overwhelming majority of Marxists worldwide.

Others have done that, we should analyze how they managed to do it and what we can learn from them that applies to our conditions and what does not.

1. Centralization of the Means of Production is the Marxist method of reaching Communism.

2. How did they “suppress workers?” AES came with dramatic democratizations of the economy, along with providing free, high quality healthcare and education, doubling of life expectancies, and more. Wealth disparity shrank while working class wages rose.

3. How did they contradict “worker control and class abolition?” AES dramatically stepped towards collective ownwership and planning.

4. How did purges and the cultural revolution harm proletarian “agency?” There were issues with those, but it wasn’t about “agency.”

AES is Socialist, in AES states the workers gained massive agency and power, and society begins to be collectively owned and planned.

The problem with your comments is that they say nothing. They make declarations, sure, but they don’t explain any of the how or why, and as a result you get massive pushback and requests for elaboration. If you’re actually a Marxist, you should be doing actual analysis and not making vague, unbacked declarations.

What of Marx have you read? What does a Socialist economy look like?

You didn’t address any of my points, more handwaved thrm away. You’re very silly.

This isn’t contemporary analysis, it’s fringe among Marxists to say the least. The idea that all.AES states were betrayals of Marxism is a viewpoint nearly exclusive to Orthodox Marxism, itself a dogmatic distortion of Marxism, which is theoretically false and has produced no pracyical results, and is extremely western. You provide no background for suggesting AES leaders “distorted Marxism” nor examples of how. This is harmful and doesn’t say anything, if you consider yourself a Marxist I would recommend following the Marxist principle of “no investigation, no right to speak.”

No worries! It wasn’t obvious with my wording, haha.

I mean my personal log. You can click the 3 dots and then look at my moderation history for content I posted, not moderated. I don’t moderate anything on this account.

Gotcha! Makes sense. I’ll start doing that in the future.

Imperialism and US Hegemony.

Hopefully more liberals are radicalized in the coming time. If anyone wants a place to start with respect to Marxist-Leninist theory, I have an introductory reading list. We can only get to Communism by doing the effort of building it, and testing theory to practice and adjusting over and over.

The problem was that the US revolution was really a bourgeois revolution that primarily served genocidal Settler-Colonialists and slavers. It could have taken on a leftward character had it been led by indigenous peoples and the Proletariat, but because it wasn’t, we have the modern US Empire and all the sins it has wrought.

The real best time was the US revolution, if we are being technical. However, now is the best we have.

Dbzer0 is defederated from Grad as far as I know. The admins are generally hostile towards MLs, they only allow Hexbear because it has a significant Anarchist presense.

You aren’t on Grad.

Maintaining revolutionary optimism is important. The only thing certain is the passage of time, we must do our best to change the course of history so that it serves Humanity over Capital as best we can. Reading theory and organizing are still critical and still effective. If you want some place to start, I have an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list.

With marx2mao.com, sometimes you have to reload the page to get in. The translations for Lenin’s works are better than Marxists.org, which is why I prefer marx2mao.com even if the website is worse. You sometimes have to “continue to http site.”

That being said, here are the Marxists.org versions, in case you’d prefer them regardless:

Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism

The State and Revolution

“Left-Wing” Communism

100%. Zionists have always had ties to the Nazi Party.

Unsurprising that the ADL swept in to defend him.