hey everyone. if you want to post links or discuss the Reddit blackout today, please localize it to this thread in order to keep things tidy! Thanks!
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It’s disappointing seeing people cave so quickly when under the slightest inconvenience. It doesn’t matter for me, though - I’m not going back. If anything, this has helped me realize the unhealthy relationship I had with Reddit and was a good way to break that.
To new and better things.
this has helped me realize the unhealthy relationship I had with Reddit and was a good way to break that
Exactly, now that I have an unhealthy relationship with Lemmy I can’t put effort into the one with Reddit.
Same. Replacing doom scrolling on Reddit with posting on beehaw.
I started reading Reddit (and now Lemmy) through RSS feeds because I was exhausted from the constant scrolling. I think that’s really helped me cut back on my link-aggregator of choice. The RSS feeds here could use some TLC though – the feeds smoosh the title and url together and if there is any sort of post text, it’s not much to go on.
What RSS feed application are you using? I’m thinking of doing the same. Just pulling in everything from multiple sources into one interface
I use https://reeder.app/ with https://feedly.com account. Checks all the boxes between being able to access my RSS feed on any device (as Feedly has a website) and having a great user experience on my phone / laptop.
Here’s my top 3 in the order I would recommend them:
Well, give young people some credit, though. Mostly they’re the ones that have been closing their subs and migrating here and working to develop FOSS software like Lemmy. I say this as someone in my late 30s.
It won’t be the last time reddit fucks up. And everytime they do, more people will come this way, especially as this place gets better and better
I wonder how much of this caving in was, because a lot of lame mods were worried about losing their past time and or control over large communities.
There are a lot of little Lukashenkos out there that will immediately cave to a bully as long as they’re allowed to remain in control.
Then we still win and Reddit still loses. Little Lukashenkos don’t make good moderators.
I deleted my Reddit account on 6/12 and they just simply didn’t process it. Losers
https://github.com/andrewbanchich/shreddit
This should help!
I’m probably going to delete my account or at least cut back drastically on my usage, but I’m currently the only active mod for a small fan sub for an old fantasy book series. I don’t really want to leave that sub unmoderated but I’ll have to find another user willing to take on mod duties before I feel alright abandoning Reddit altogether.
only active mod for a small fan sub
That attachment is what they (Reddit) are counting on. It’s your community, not Reddits; and they don’t care. But you do… while admirable in itself, its being used against you.
I don’t disagree with you, but I still feel a certain responsibility to that community. I’d like to start divesting myself of that responsibility, but it’ll take time if I don’t want to just abandon it.
From what I understand of how this whole system works here - you can just host/create your own instance for that community. Make some mod post on your subreddit about how you’re migrating the community, if anyone can help host it if you’re unable, and if they want to follow over they can.
Yeah it’s an idea for sure. I responded to @curiosityLynx a minute ago that I’m really burnt out on that particular series so I think it’s probably time for me to find somebody else to take it on and just move on myself.
How about you make a lemmy community or a kbin magazine and officially migrate your subreddit there? (including making a stickied announcement in the subreddit)
Since you’re its only mod, that should be possible and even easier to do than migrating a bigger subreddit like /r/TalesFromTheFrontDesk
I’ve considered it, but honestly I’m kind of tired of it lol. It’s an older series and so all of the arguments/discussions are just kind of retread endlessly, and I’m not as into it as I used to be. Also there are discussions about making a tv show and I wouldn’t mind being as far away as possible once that kicks into high gear. I saw what r/WoT was like when that show came out and I don’t want any part of moderating that crap.
Ah, makes sense.
Which series? My guess is Riftwar based on that description, but I’m curious if you’re open to sharing.
Not Riftwar, although I did love those books and even had a rogue on Ultima Online named “Jimmy the Hand”.
It’s a series called “The Chronicles of Amber” by Roger Zelazny. Great series but not without its flaws and never super huge in the public consciousness.
Yeah, the niche subreddits are what I really hate to leave behind. I could care less about leaving r/politics, r/AskReddit, etc. But I’ll miss r/EtrianOdyssey (niche video game series).
But we’ll just have to create these communities on Lemmy. I’m in it for the long haul.
As the only mod, would you be able to export the data to lemmy and inform the users that they can continue posting here? I have no idea, genuinely just interested.
I have no idea whether that would be possible, but I’m also not sure I would want to do it. It would be one thing to encourage folks to move but I don’t own that subreddit (I’m not even the founder or the head mod, just the only one that actively moderates) and I wouldn’t want to grab other folks’ posts and comments and put them elsewhere.
That makes sense. It sounds like you are the right person to be that moderator, so I tip my hat.
What book series?
The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny
Malicious Compliant Deep Thoughts : You could create a group here on Lemmy, start topics and discussions there. Then link those Lemmy posts on Reddit. The Reddit Users will figure it out. :)
…an old fantasy book series…
(My ears prick up)
An old fantasy series? I’m big time into old fantasy series. May I ask what it was?
The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny.
Cool! Zelazny is one of my favorite authors. I assume you’ve read his Lord of Light?
Incredibly, I have not. It’s on my TBR list, I’ve just never gotten to it. Pretty bad for somebody moderating a Zelazny fan sub but it is what it is, lol
It’s his magnum opus. Enjoyable as Amber is (and I wish he’d written more), Lord of Light is absolutely incredible. Although a lot of people get confused by the flashback that starts with Chapter 2 and lasts for more than half of the book.
It’s disappointing seeing people cave so quickly when under the slightest inconvenience.
The whole protest was slacktivism of the highest order. Minimum effort, minimum results.
I’m happy to stay on lemmy. Just like mastodon, it had a boy that will fade but then I think it will continue to grow.
Reddit’s always had inept management, Spez in particular can’t help but antagonise his users with a daft unforced error every couple of years. We don’t need to ‘win’, we don’t even need to actively do anything but exist. As long as nice places like this exist and Reddit does too the Reddit’s inevitable cockups will provide a small but steady trickle of users.
Advertisers are starting to take notice, it seems. Gotta keep the blackout running longer to hit em in their pocketbooks - 2 days they can weather out, indefinite dark they cannot. It’s what I’ve been saying from the beginning, a protest with a clearly defined end date has no teeth.
I’ve heard about Reddit removing a mod from a popular subreddit, then turning the subreddit public (sorry, don’t have the reference). They can always stop the blackout by force. But once they do that, those mods will have definite incentive to start the communities in the fediverse.
I think it was r/AdviceAnimals
It was. How does one link to another post on Lemmy?
That seemed to be a situation where the head mod was going against the wishes of the other mods. Not sure how I feel about it, personally, but it’s not quite as simple as “Spez made the subreddit open against the wishes of everyone involved”.
Also r/tumblr
It was done because the head mod (who barely contributed anything) showed up out of the blue and decided to enroll the sub into the protest. The rest of the mod team was not in agreement with it.
I don’t know how to make this not about me. So, I’m just going to say it. Friday I closed a 13 year old Reddit account. Saturday and Sunday I brought up multiple Fediverse servers. I now have Mastodon, Lemmy, PixelFed, Owncast, and NextCloud working. I have yet to get Element Chat and PeerTube running. They will happen by Friday. When I opened my Owncast I killed my Twitch account. When PeerTube is up and running I drop YouTube. My point is, I want to thank Reddit for providing me the motivation to leave corporate social media and switch to my own platform. I’m not going back… I’m going forward.
Thanks for this, I hadn’t heard of half of these projects and now I’m also looking into them! Pixelfed in particular look amazing. I have a few friends that have been wanting to rid Instagram so will definitely be sending this their way.
Yah, me too. Maybe not quite 13 y/o (that must have been painful!), but mine was still an active one.
https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
was a big help.
I just posted this in response to a frenetic YouTube video that claimed that the Reddit protest “failed”:
Get serious. It was NEVER going to stop the IPO. But it has accomplished something even more important: it has decapitated Reddit. A lot of the most passionate and involved users are gone, and more of them have at least tried Fediverse alternatives like Lemmy and kbin. Have you checked those sites out? They’re FLOODED with Reddit refugees, and the communities there are booming! They’re active and vibrant, with great discussions and content.
What’s more, they have hope. The members there aren’t subject to some psychotic money-grubbing corporation; if any one server goes authoritarian, there’s nothing stopping the users there from just moving to another. They’ll have the same access and functionality. And frankly, the odds of a Fediverse server going corporate and having an IPO are infinitesimal. It simply wouldn’t be worth it, particularly since there’s no way they could stop other instances from defederating with them.
So the outcome of the blackout has been twofold: First, Reddit has lost some of it’s best. The quality of content there is diminished, and will continue to diminish as poor quality drives users away. And second, the Fediverse alternatives have been given a huge boost. Almost all users of Reddit are now aware of the ugly truths that underlie that service, and that there are alternatives out there.
That’s not failure. That’s the seeds of success.
And by the way, I think that’s one thing we can all do to help bring down Reddit: mention the great alternatives out there as much as possible to spread the word. The more Redditors who learn that they don’t have to be a product to be sold by the pound for the stockholder class, the quicker Reddit will fall!
I also bet there are people who haven’t already left that will abandon ship once the TPAs stop working. It’s not going to be fun getting stuck with their mediocre app, particularly since they seem to be testing the end of the mobile site.
This. For a lot of people Reddit isn’t reddit.com, it’s Apollo or Relay or Sync or Reddit Is Fun.
After the apps stop working, they won’t be able to keep using the thing they’re used to. They can’t just go back, they’ll have to switch to something different.
I stopped using Twitter when they pulled this API crap, and as a Boost user, I won’t use reddit when I can no longer use Boost.
Currently using Jerboa for beehaw and I’m liking it so far, and the dev seems really responsive to user requests. Excited for the communities to get some traction moving forward!
not toot my own horn, but the 3d party app community for lemmy is quite active right about now… wink-wink
the community has risen to meet demand, and it’s a very exciting time right now!
That’s me, avid Relay Pro user, I’m not going back to the pos native app. Loving Lemmy and the Fediverse! Also, kinda psyched to see it grow.
I imagine there’s a meaningful amount of users that only exist in the context of the third party apps, that will disappear after the apps lose support. I’m sure most of them are lurkers, but that’s still something.
I wonder if lurkers are ad clickers
It’s disappointing to see some of the larger subreddits going public with a ‘what’s the point?’ tone. Most are staying private, but some aren’t. As if Reddit doesn’t exist solely because of its user generated content. If enough subs permanently shut down they’ll have to reconsider their API position.
I decided to write a message to subreddits I’ve been lurking for years via messaging the mods saying how vitally important it is for subreddits to protest right now, at this critical time, before it’s too late. I’ve politely implored them to continue the protest saying how these API changes with have a long-lasting, permanent impact on Reddit as a platform for the worse.
I’d suggest you guys come up with your own letter template and message the mods of those subreddits in polite form. It’d be great if we can convince these exceptions to go private again. I also understand some moderators may be afraid Reddit will just replace them with mods willing to reopen the sub, so I added a section saying it they’re treated like that, Reddit don’t deserve their time and maybe they should consider rebuilding elsewhere if that happens. Its their prime chance to stand up for the right thing right now for the future of Reddit.
I used Reddark to determine which subreddits to contact. I’d say only contact hobbyist ones such as sports rather than more politically-inclined ones like Ukraine that have a fair reason to stay open. Also some subreddits have made poll posts asking their users if they should go private like Gaming and NotTheOnion, so please don’t message those ones.
What the big subreddits don’t realise is, on Fediverse many of their subreddits have not yet been recreated. If they don’t do it, someone else will and then they come in as just contributors. So may be in their interests to actually establish a presence, and gauge how much take-up they get.
May be they already realize it, meaning, they saw all the popular communities already created here, and would much rather stay there as mods.
I think so too but I don’t see why they wouldn’t want to come on the fediverse nonetheless. They can participate but not as mods. Once they build a reputation on the fediverse then of course they could apply for mod.
I agree with everything you’ve said and that it is disappointing. I do think there is merit in continuing to protest and send a message.
However, I don’t think there’s anything that can move the Reddit leadership team back. Because even if they went back on this API issue, the continued process of the degradation of reddit as a service has been a long term thing. It seems to me that the Fidelity downgrade of their evaluation has pushed them even further down this path.
I truly am done with them. Even if they come back from all this, what’s left there? Somebody else pointed out that over the year, generally interactions became more unfriendly on reddit, spam and changes to the algorithm increasingly pushed away from the platform we all loved.
I see this situation and how it was so exacerbated by Spez and the leaderships absolute failure as a blessing. There’s a lot of alternative ways to spend time on the internet, to connect and learn. Beehaw has been really good to me the last couple days, I am excited for a future here and ready to not contribute toward the mess that reddit has become anymore.
It’s become increasingly clear that Steve and his cronies are desperately trying to get Reddit to its IPO with value intact so they can cash out and leave someone else holding the bag. As I’ve said elsewhere, I wouldn’t be surprised if he and others end up shorting Reddit.
If he does, that’s insider trading and wildly illegal. Not saying he won’t, just that the ethical thing to do would be to treat Reddit as a Conman’s scheme and withdraw any value you’ve put into it sooner rather than later. Reduce the IPO value by not going back
I’m excited to see how these new platforms flourish too. Even if Reddit do eventually concede and they drop their API pricing, the writing is on the wall. They’ve shown how little they care about the community that uses their platform. I’ll likely be leaving Reddit permanently, but I want to know I’ve at least done everything in my power as a long-time user to protest their awful decisions.
I was wondering if I should delete all or leave some of my posts, but seeing subs I subscribed to come back was what made me decide to just wipe everything. Can’t do anything about the mods or what other users do, so felt like deleting stuff was the one tiny bit of control I had over the situation. Which itself is nothing, but at least it’s something.
You can request your data under EU’s new GDPR law https://www.reddit.com/settings/data-request
They have to send you all your personal data. Once you have your data, you can they use a tool to delete all your data and wipe your comments before you deleted your account. Like Chrome/Edge extension RedditZapper.
Note that it might take a while though, so if anyone wants to get this done before the 30th (so you can use API-based tools to wipe comments), request it ASAP.
I requested…maybe two weeks or so ago? And it only came through today. So get to it y’all
I used Power Delete Suite to overwrite my comments and posts via API, it includes an option to export everything from your account to a CSV before it takes any destructive actions, and it’s super easy to use.
It was cool seeing years of comments get wiped. I could see why some people would purge their history every year even before the reddit controversy. It’s cleansing in a way.
I’m planning to wait and see what happens on June 30th before I do that. Over the years I’ve made some educational posts on music production that I still occasionally get messages about, so I’ll be manually going through my content to decide what to preserve and what to delete. I’m glad I’m not someone who decided to post a lot over my many years of Redditing or I would be in for a long dig lol (if you’ll pardon the pun RIP Digg).
I have started calling the mods of those subreddit “Scabs”
Still holding strong and staying here. Might as well get it over with though, as once RIF is dead, I wouldn’t be browsing reddit anyway.
Stayed off Reddit completely for the last 2 days but checked back in in a couple of the smaller subs I browse today. But I have found I am checking back in here on Lemmy more even now that all the Reddit subs I usually post in are back open. This really feels like a viable alternative to me.
I’ve also stayed off reddit so far, but doing so taught me something. I’m definitely addicted to scrolling reddit on my phone. The number of times I just opened reddit on reflex and then caught myself and killed the app was insane. Even if there’s a miracle and reddit changes their ways, this is something I should probably address.
I decided to jump before I was pushed and binned off Apollo the weekend before the strikes started. This place existing made that jump a lot easier I think!
I imagine the devs have stats on uninstalls - I wonder what they show.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall at Reddit HQ right now in general!
@mobyduck648 @Deebster Who cares what Reddit thinks anymore. IF they do bring back third-party apps I will use Reddit, Mastodon and lemmy regardless. Reddit messed up big time
I had the official Reddit app because there was one function that it could do that my 3P couldn’t. But I decided the hell with it and uninstalled it yesterday. I assume I’m not the only one.
And meanwhile, I can’t say that I’m holding strong. I still have no desire to go back to Reddit. No strength is required!
I tried the official app a few times before the api announcement and can’t stand it. I’m supporting the blackout and if RIF dies, I will be done with reddit for good. I will miss the mass amount of knowledge.
Hi welcome. Have fun with it! It’s new, it’s exciting. It’s less developed but that just leaves tons of room for growth and polish! Reddit was over saturated and stagnant. Embrace the relatively empty pond!
I put the Lemmy web app shortcut where my Rif app used to be on my phone, so my muscle memory from always opening up rif has me going to lemmy instead. I’ve barely been looking at reddit at all and really enjoying seeing these lemmy communities grow. Once rif is gone I don’t plan to use reddit at all (aside from the occasional specific Google search for “specific question reddit”) and I don’t think I’ll miss it.
I am fascinated by how the experience of other people can be completely different from mine, alien even. We can look at the same situation and come up with exactly opposite conclusions. I keep trying to put myself in the shoes of the other, figure out how they think. The behavior of u/spez is abhorent to me, but here’s how I would imagine he thinks about the community list of demands:
<AH mode>
Bringing the API pricing down to the point ads/subscriptions could realistically cover the costs.
The costs are reasonable and down to earth! We’ve been extremely generous. Our prices are in line with industry standards. The app devs are greedy and do not want to pay. In fact they are so greedy they are choosing to shut down and go out of business rather than pay their fair share! Also some apps are ahem inefficient. Those devs could stay profitable if they just code their apps better.
Reddit gives the apps time to make whatever adjustments are necessary
The apps had plenty of time. We’ve been perfectly transparent. The API changes were announced months in advance. The first bills do not arrive until months from now in August, and are not due for another month after that. The apps have enough time if they are serious about working with us.
Rate limits would need to be per user+appkey, not just per key.
Rate limits are for the free tier. The paid tier is a flat fee per 1000 API calls without rate limit.
Commitment to adding features to the API; image uploads/chat/notifications.
We are always working on new and exciting features! We have so many mod tools in the pipeline. All the hottest features will appear in our native app first, which is where we can best ensure everything stays compatible. Have you tried using that?
Lack of communication. Why were disabled communities not contacted to gauge the impact of these API changes?
We are always in communication with our communities! We’ve been discussing these API changes for months, collecting community input, and interacting with our users in AMAs!
You say you’ve offered exemptions for “non-commercial” and “accessibility apps.” Despite r/blind’s best efforts, you have not stated how they are selected.
We communicate with developers on an app-by-app basis. We have already confirmed the inclusion of two accessibility apps! We support accessibility for blind people!
Parity in access to NSFW content
Cannot be done for lawyercat reasons.
Now that we have addressed all of the listed community concerns, we are looking forward to welcoming all of you back to reddit!
</AH mode>
P.S. the fact that u/spez specifically stated that “old.reddit.com isn’t going anywhere” confirms in my mind that old.reddit will be gone within 9 months. Screenshot this.
old.reddit.com isn’t going anywhere
“We are keeping it right here on our servers and it’s not going over the internet to your browser.”
Once old Reddit goes leaving is not a matter of choice for me.
Cannot be done for lawyercat reasons.
I can’t say for sure, but I suspect they are trying to push nsfw in-house for the sake of monetizing it. Nsfw drives quite a bit of traffic, and with the falling out of Imgur, Reddit itself has become the primary host. They just can’t say that publicly because Reddit has a bit of problem with non-consensual material.
Right! I was trying to model u/spez as sincere, but with views so diametrically opposed to mine as to sound insane. “Lawyercats” was an actual reason he has cited previously. I agree that the much more likelier explanation is that reddit execs are lying out their ass and are simply deliberately killing off 3rd party apps to make their IPO look better somehow, and using the fuck-you pricing as a convenient excuse. The execs must have been drinking their own start-up cool-aid, having forgotten that the real value of reddit is not in them but in the community. u/spez keeps calling it HIS data that 3rd party apps are profiting off, when it is really OUR data. Or maybe they are aware, but are expecting that they can bend the community to their will regardless.
But wait. I have a NSFW subreddit, and reddit doesn’t allow you to upload pictures directly to reddit if you’re on an NSFW subreddit. Right? So how can it be the primary host?
Apparently it’s allowed via the official mobile app.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/05/12/reddit-will-allow-users-to-upload-nsfw-images-from-desktop/
Man, I read your word vomit like 4 times, I believe you are right about all of it.
I read all of the apps threads about why they’re quitting on the 30th, for Apolo which has already charged its users he would have to foot the costs the whole time until the next subscription re-up for many/most of his users, and we’re supposed to believe the reddit guys?
For others, even the ones that want to make it work with added subscriptions, the lack of full reddit access via the API makes one wonder, what’s the point of even trying?
Reddit has been an awful site for nearly 20 years, the only thing that made it usable was third party apps.
I’m not sure I’m going to miss it, I hated it before 3PA, and I’m willing to hate it again now.
The only thing I’m going to miss is world news updates and stuff that is here, the volume is basically muted in comparison.
For me its really exciting. it is like watching history happen. I am really glad the people have managed to come together for something important.
Yeah I don’t have a strong opinion about whole API access controversy but it does spark a greater debate about how we let centralized services like Reddit subsume the Internet forum culture of old. Of course, Reddit in many ways is a superior product to the decentralized forums of old (you only need one account to post) but at the same time, this whole protest has proven especially damaging to people who rely heavily on Reddit as a resource for support (like the mental health subreddits, the chronic disease ones, etc.).
This is just me, personally, but I hate Reddits stance on the API situation about AI learning, and how it’s not profitable to offer the data for free. Excuse me, the data doesn’t even exist without the users. I get we are all data-harvested, but to completely pull the rug like this is unforgivable. I mean the TPA’s were the only way I interacted with Reddit. For me, it’s not about the ads, the money or anything, it’s deliberately killing the TPA to drive their profits up. I mean fuck, I’d pay a subscription to access reddit if it kept TPA open. But nah, gonna act like they earned my data and are entitled to it, no thanks.
This is probably a dumb comment, sorry. I can’t word very well and I don’t usually get out what’s going through my head
There are over 6000 subreddits that still aren’t public. Like looks like Reddit is over waiting for them to come back online. https://famichiki.jp/@Tsutsuku/110537730270070245
This was a predicted outcome, at least for the larger subreddits. Expect to hear much more of this in the coming couple of days.
Gods of the Internet, with this offering I ask you to summon Cerf, Torvalds, and Stallman so that they may witness this curse. By the spirits of my ancestors I curse Reddit. Let its profits wither. Let its networks crack. Let it see its legions of users disperse. Gods of the Inferno, I offer to you its networks, its mouthpiece, its servers, its “free” speech, its hands, its liver, its black heart, its stomach. Gods of the Inferno, let me see Reddit suffer deeply, and I will rejoice and sacrifice to you.
Will kneel next to my desk top tonight and recite this under the glow of the divine monitor.
Man that prayer was fkng funny xD, specially mentioning Torvalds and Stallman is a gigachad move
Shamelessly borrowed from HBO series “ROME”
Stallman is a horrible terrible no good very bad person.
Welp. Wish I could say I was surprised. Time for the handful of power mods still licking admin boots to get even more subs under their belt, I guess. No way that could possibly end badly…
Many subreddits are holding polls on whether they should continue the blackout. For those who are boycotting Reddit, I would highly encourage you to go vote. Even if you plan to leave Reddit for good, a longer blackout will drive more users here.
It seems problematic to have a poll to about boycotting when those actively boycotting won’t be there to participate.
On many subreddits that have polls, it seems like a majority favor keeping their subs open. It seems like the userbase is generally ambivalent or even hostile towards the protest at large.
Makes sense considering everyone who is pro-blackout is not on the site…
IDK I also see plenty of posts supporting keeping subs closed too. I doubt a lot of people have left the site for good. But those voices are generally outnumbered by people who don’t understand what’s going on or don’t care about the protest.
Don’t get me wrong… Lemmy is fine, but I am finding that most of the active posts here are about the protest on Reddit… plus a few discussions on current news and gaming… but little else. I am still spending most of my time on Reddit.
The Reddit drama is still the hotness right now, but soon maybe 2 months into the future it won’t be as new and you won’t see it as much.
I think this newest wave of decentralization is a good thing. Though we might lose knowledge held in those niche subreddits that choose to not go back that knowledge will inevitably migrate somewhere else.
Because, while we know how shitty Reddit as a company has behaved, there are millions who have no idea (despite the popular posts by mods across thousands of subs) and now feel that the mods and subs which went private/restricted are the ones damaging Reddit, rather than Reddit shooting itself.
To be honest, not that many people seem to actually care and I think this would have gone better if they didn’t announce their “for 48 hours” bullshit. Imagine if the WGA said they were going on strike for two weeks and then getting back to writing. They would accomplish literally nothing.
Subs saying “for 48 hours” is the equivalent to that. If they just went indefinite from the start, they wouldn’t have to be polling people who are now mostly just annoyed that their experience has been unpleasant for two days.
Honestly, as much as I support the whole thing, it went about as well as expected. Mods kind of shot themselves in the foot, now the community blames them.
In a way, those users are right. Either go all in or do nothing. Middle-of-the-road shit doesn’t work for things like this.
Also, the constant image with the black background and large white text saying Reddit sucks (that’s at least how it appears to general users) is becoming literal spam. Regular users see it, and it becomes one of those things where it’s like “we heard you the first dozen times, please shut up”. Also, because it’s being spammed, it loses impact and people gloss over it or filter it out.
At best, they’ll annoy enough people to leave (kind of roundabout way of accomplishing things, but I guess it works). At worst, they’ve given reddit a reason to declare the mods as promoting and engaging in spam which “doesn’t benefit the users of the site, so we’re going to step in and get things back on track so everyone can enjoy Reddit” or some corporate shit.
Honestly, Reddit’s in a position where they may even have the upper hand now in terms of PR. Users angry, but not at them.
The thing is, the people who don’t realize what this is about are going to be having a really rough time in a couple of weeks when moderation slides. Of course, they’re going to blame the mods again and say they’re doing it on purpose because the “protest failed and now you’re just being spiteful and hurting the users”.
We know that’s not the case. The majority doesn’t and won’t care.
I think the real issue is that the protest coordinators were not able to succinctly explain why they had to protest to begin with. Charging third party app developers for API access is an esoteric topic. Most people don’t even know what an API is. Most people don’t use third party apps. Most people also don’t care.
Yeah, I was going to mention that as well.
Longtime users and especially power users and mods have been on third party apps for ages. And because third party apps are the most “visible” examples of the API, that’s what drew the attention.
As soon as they tried to explain “it’s not only about third party apps, but also third party tools”, that’s when they lost people because explaining what those tools are and accomplish to users who aren’t mods (or even familiar with tech at all) becomes a subject without much clarity.
To a massive portion of users, there is no “reddit(dot)com”, it’s just the app. The fact that so many subs are still using titles like “save third party apps” is a bad sign. It’s not “save Reddit from spam bots and other awful shit” (which is one of the things this is mainly about), but you’re telling a bunch of people to “save” apps that they don’t use or care about.
There’s an added cog in the machine here. Every time someone tries (and succeeds) in explaining the issues, the astroturfing (or just regular bootlicking) begins and suddenly there’s seeds of doubt.
One thing we can count on is Reddit fucking up again. And again. And each time, it’ll lose the more active users. It’s not ever going to be a mass migration, but waves over time. Even then, what can we say Reddit will be in another five years? Probably different from what it is now, with users who expect different things.
There’s an added cog in the machine here. Every time someone tries (and succeeds) in explaining the issues, the astroturfing (or just regular bootlicking) begins and suddenly there’s seeds of doubt.
I am seeing many users (especially those who haven’t been around for as long) asking people what the big deal is and why their favorite subreddits are down. Half of the people trying to respond aren’t giving these people satisfactory and succinct answers. The protest is breaking down as soon as it began.
Most (60%) of Reddit users either use 3rd party apps (~30%) or old.reddit.com (~30%)
You can’t throw out an enormous number like that without further explanation or a source at least. The only post I found on my first Google search is from a reddit post (6 days ago) where it’s said that reddit reports about 5% of its users coming from third party apps.
Apollo also reported having around 1.2M users while not being a small app at all.
So with 400M MAU as the lowest possible amount of users, somehow all others 3rd party apps have over 118M users between them?
I could believe 30% of users being old.reddit ones due to it not being deleted after all those years. But for mobile apps, that 5% quote seems the most realistic.
Asking the people still posting/commenting if they want a subreddit to stay open seems kind of pointless. Of course they want it to stay open, they didn’t care for the blackout in the first place.
Every poll I voted on was overwhelmingly in favor of indefinitely privating the sub. And it was like 7 of them
I accidentally posted this outside the megathread — reposting here to help make life easier for the mods:
https://mods.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/16693988535309
Reddit attempting to offer free API usage for moderator tools (but not 3rd Party Apps)
They’ve now added that “non-commercial” qualifier to accessibility apps and mod tools. So they’re totally cool with 3rd parties adding value to their platform. As long as all of the revenue resulting from that unpaid work goes straight to Reddit.
I like how they state the following:
As of July 1, 2023, we are increasing the API limits for our free API usage from 60 to 100 Queries Per Minute for those using OAuth authentication.
They’re making it sound like they’re increasing the rate limit, whereas they’re actually changing it from 60 queries per user per application per minute to 100 queries per application per minute. So if you had a 3rd party app with 1000 users, you’d have 60 queries each minute for every single user, now all those 1000 users will have to share 100 queries each minute (so that’d be 1 query per user every 10 minutes), unless the app developer is willing to pay up.
This is now going to end up costing them more money cause they’ll have to police the usage of thier api with all these exceptions lol
The way Reddit has handled this has been so disappointing. Aaron Swartz been rolling over but man look what Reddit has become. I believe now more than ever that any site that revolves around a community should be in the hands of said community and not corporations or else this eventually happens. Corporations need to produce profit to survive, but when we’re talking spaces for open discussion that need more often than not works against the very community that makes up the content.
I believe now more than ever that any site that revolves around a community should be in the hands of said community and not corporations or else this eventually happens
This is how it used to be before the internet for most people basically became five websites run by enormous faceless data mines. Forums/bulletin boards/IRC channels used to be run by the community for the community and in my opinion the internet was better for it. Sure you’d get the odd flame war or power-tripping mod, but it was super common for a large portion of the community to just up sticks and start a new forum somewhere else if it became too much of a problem. Then Reddit killed most of the hobbyist forums stone dead. There’s nothing to go back to so we have to start fresh. But honestly, I’m here for it. I’m tired of being the product for a bunch of advertisers. Take me back to 2004.
In 2004 I was still running a Usenet server. Online games were run by the community too. I spent so much time on MUDs.
It seems like now we are in this cycle where someone builds something shinier and fancier, it briefly becomes the next best thing, and then they find out it can’t make money (or just survive) unless it becomes significantly worse, and then the next best thing appears. But because of all the steps back there is little real progress. Lemmy too is, functionally, not that different from Usenet. It has pictures and votes and is generally more modern. But what I see highlighted in contrast to reddit is that it’s distributed. Like Usenet. It’s not supposed to be a breakthrough but after reddit it feels like one.
I started on Usenet back in the 80s. Those were the days! We had real freedom back then…
Hopefully it doesn’t get overrun with spam like Usenet did…
Agreed! I was super-active on a few small bulletin boards until about 2003. I definitely miss the smaller, targeted community and sense of place.
We need democracy online. Down with the unelected aristocracy!
I do not cross picket lines. Later this week, once the protest is officially over, I plan on going on Reddit, backing up my data using the PowerDeleteSuite another user posted about, and then overwriting and deleting my comments and posts with a message about the protest, before closing my account entirely.
Lemmy has already grown a nice community of people, and I’ll be glad to contribute and watch it grow over time!
Overwrite all your comments with “move to beehaw!”
I’m going with the HD-DVD encryption key. It just feels right to go full circle.
That’s a great idea!
Yeah, I’m on the lemmy.world instance, but I was planning on doing something like that. I’ve heard that some bots have been going around deleting posts that mention Lemmy / the Fediverse though, so I guess we’ll see how it goes. :)
Anytime I’ve mentioned Lemmy directly I immediately receive 3 downvotes lol.
I considered that for mine, but given that replacing all my comments can be taken as hostile, I’d rather not associate them with Lemmy or Beehaw.
I just went with setting every one of my comments to [user data has been purged]
I don’t know what kind of comments and posts you’ve made on Reddit, but if any of them are technical how-to’s or something that may come up when people search for specific problems, then it might be good to leave those comments, or else just prefix each comment with your “purged” message instead of overwriting them entirely. I mean if it’s fun memes or discussions, then you do you 😅 I’m just thinking of the tale of DenverCoder9. Plus, it probably costs more for Reddit to store a longer comment than a shorter one! Pennies or less, but still!
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The site is being astroturfed by bots as well. So many FirstWordSecondWordBunchaNumbers comments that are all exactly the same trying to pin this on the mods.
Reddit has been caught astroturfing their site before, multiple times. It’s just not been reported on because it usually doesn’t happen in English, or happened when the site was small and young.
There are entire alternate language versions of big subreddits filled with nothing but reposts of popular old posts run through a translator. Comments section and all.
SubredditSimulator was fun as an experiment but it’s clear they’ll artificially prop their engagement and I really hope advertisers catch on. If you’re a journalist in tech reading this, you’ve got a hell of a story to break about a top ten website fluffing up its stats for an illicit IPO grab.
What do you mean by mentioning SubredditSimulator here? Wasn’t that a GPT experiment made by a random user or was there something more nefarious at play that I completely missed?
SubredditSimulator was a fun experiment by a random user with increasingly improving realism, training ChatGPT on real comments.
It also showed Reddit you can fake engagement and community interaction with bots, which are now astroturfing the fuck out of the site.
Dang, I never thought about that. It explains a lot though
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There’s another sub with GPT in the title, r/subGPT or something. The subreddit simulator always amused me, it was blatantly artificial - the content on this new one made me queasy, it was precisely the kind of one note jibber jabber we’d skim past constantly.
I think the big subreddits especially fear starting all over again from scratch ;-) I have a smaller subreddit and am thinking of just closing it anyway. I already post on Beehaw but into different public groups.
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Didn’t reddit piss off a lot of the German users by making fake subs filled with poorly translated bots?
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Do you have any insights as to why I have german posts appeared in my reddit front page when I have none of the german subreddits subscribed?
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