You need to learn a skill that leads to a living wage. Demanding politicians to directly do that is pointless, they are absolutely unable to give you that. The only thing they can directly do is set a minimum wage, which is essentially a lie. It doesn’t actually give you a minimum/living wage, instead it makes you completely unemployable if your wage level is between 0-(minimum wage).
As u/nomad mentioned, demanding structures that make getting an education easier or give you safety nets when things go to shit, or basic income/negative tax rates for low incomes is something politicans can do. But don’t demand stupid things like minimum wage, they might actually do those.
Not sure what you have against minimum wage, it works well in other countries (I’m from the Netherlands). Obviously it doesn’t solve everything by itself, but it’s definitely a valuable part of a range of measures to treat people fairly. It’s a fantasy that everyone can be educated to a level above minimum wage.
Ah, got it, so all our problems are the fault of those pesky workers wanting to afford to survive, and not those who refuse to function unless they’re exploiting others…
Makes perfect sense, “economist”… 🙄😂
Minimum wage works. Here is an article from the german newspaper FAZ (leans economically right) that presents a study that shows the low income sector has shrunk since the implementation of minimum wages.
Germany before had one of the biggest low income sectors in the western world.
And no, the unemployment rate did not skyrocket. In fact, Germany is as close to full employment as it gets.
Yes, that’s what happens in a minimum wage environment, although not every single time like people have shown in these threads. But when somebody doesn’t start a business, that’s invisible.
What is visible is when an existing business’s costs rise above the minimum wage level. There are plenty of reasons why this could happen, 9/10 of them not being “the C-levels are paid too much”. That’s when they start firing people or just go under which essentially fires everyone.
Perhaps we want a society that don’t have employment for the people who can only work below a minimum wage level. That’s some sort of a decision, I just want to be honest about making that decision.
It doesn’t even happen a statistically significant number of times, you’re just parrotting what executives want you to believe, believing they know what’s best for you
Since as many as 10 percent of the lowest-wage workers leave or start jobs every month, any decrease in the number of full-time equivalent jobs will mean that some workers will take more time finding a new job, or will work fewer hours. But many of these workers may still see their annual earnings rise because of their wage increase.
That video does give good arguments, but to suggest that this is not a controversial issue in economics is perhaps a bit dishonest. Granted, I suppose I suggested that as well.
e: that channel’s Breadtube vs Economics series seem pretty good, thanks for the pointer. Seems like the channel is left-leaning, and this makes me doubly happy. A political left with good knowledge on economics would be a great thing.
You clearly don’t have even a basic education in economics. There’s enough data across a variety of jurisdictions and history at this point to establish the effectiveness of the minimum wage.youre choosing to ignore that and simp for managers and capital owners.
Having bit more than basic education in economics, I suppose.
Well there’s your problem: neoclassical / neoliberal / Chicago School economics, which has become hegemonic in universities around the capitalist world, is garbage.
You need to learn a skill that leads to a living wage. Demanding politicians to directly do that
This is a perfect example of traditional neoliberal rhetoric, attributing success solely to individual effort and downplaying structural obstacles. It operates under the assumption that everyone has equal opportunities for success, which is simply not the case. This ideology perpetuates the existence of a low-wage sector for those who may not have had access to the same educational opportunities, such as migrants, single parents, and others facing systemic barriers. The American Dream, often touted as a symbol of success through hard work, is a myth perpetuated by neoliberalism. It is important not to buy into the narrative that one’s circumstances are solely their own fault. Statistics show that social mobility is much lower in the US compared to many European countries, which further disproves the idea that hard work alone guarantees success.
Precisely this. People are taught by the wealthy class to devalue certain jobs because they are deemed “lesser than,” and that the people that occupy those jobs are “not worthy” of a living wage, benefits, a stable living situation, respect, and more. This systematic dehumanization prevents us from realizing the true harms that working class people of all backgrounds are experiencing. Of course, the harms are compounded if you identify as a woman, a person of color, a queer person, as having a disability, or if you don’t speak the native language.
Environmental Justice is what we need - a sense of community, mutual support, and a collective realization of past harms that have been baked into every policy, from the local to the federal level. These harmful policies have to be disrupted and dismantled, which can only be possible through education and action. The more people that engage in collective action under the banner of Environmental Justice, the better chance we have of really making meaningful, positive change.
There are millions out there that cannot afford to make themselves employable. They work long hours, possibly two jobs, plus a hustle just to not make enough for ends to meet. How do they go back to school? Learn a trade?
I am one of them, except I haven’t found my hustle yet. I work 40+ hours each week, but I take home so little. I was able to make rent two days ago, for last months rent. I have to hold off on a one of my meds, because paying rent took precedent over everything else, again. People like me don’t give a shit about programs that cannot help us in the short term. We already know our long term: work until we die, with nothing to show for it.
We could turn down the heat, so that the frogs might be able to escape their boiling fate? No, let’s design a better pot that won’t boil the frogs. The ones in there now won’t make it, but their progeny will also likely…not make it.
You ought to check yourself before you call what can be a major relief for millions, stupid. Seriously.
Sure, it is my fault that even though there is enough food and most of the farming is automated, I still need to work for it because I don’t own the land.
We shouldn’t ask them to fix it for us, they never will. We need to take control of the land that feeds us.
I don’t know you, but I can guess: it’s almost never the individual’s fault. But we should still look for efficient solutions, not populist non-solutions.
Lmmfao, so you’re against minimum wage claiming it’s a non-solution (and also that some workers must gain further education to even “deserve” it) while advocating UBI, which is a solution on the exact same level as minimum wage is - the level that still allows capitalists to exploit the labour of others for profit (except with UBI, it is the government compensating them from the tax pot, either way, it’s working people paying the highest price - freedom).
Never mind that the meme doesn’t offer it up as a solution to anything, but more of a bare minimum that neither democrats nor republicans will give, because, and this is the point the meme is actually making which seems to have gone completely over your head - both democrats and republicans work for capitalism, not you.
Truth is, you’re just here to flex your “economist” muscles, but instead you’re just spewing clueless yet confident incorrectness all over the place… 😂
You need to learn a skill that leads to a living wage. Demanding politicians to directly do that is pointless, they are absolutely unable to give you that. The only thing they can directly do is set a minimum wage, which is essentially a lie. It doesn’t actually give you a minimum/living wage, instead it makes you completely unemployable if your wage level is between 0-(minimum wage).
As u/nomad mentioned, demanding structures that make getting an education easier or give you safety nets when things go to shit, or basic income/negative tax rates for low incomes is something politicans can do. But don’t demand stupid things like minimum wage, they might actually do those.
Not sure what you have against minimum wage, it works well in other countries (I’m from the Netherlands). Obviously it doesn’t solve everything by itself, but it’s definitely a valuable part of a range of measures to treat people fairly. It’s a fantasy that everyone can be educated to a level above minimum wage.
Other countries don’t exist, silly!
Having bit more than basic education in economics, I suppose.
Is it more or less a fantasy than the fantasy that every employer is able to pay the minimum wage?
If company can’t pay it’s workers a living wage, that company shouldn’t exist.
Indeed. That’s exactly what will happen. And then people whose wage level is below the minimum wage will be unemployed.
Ah, got it, so all our problems are the fault of those pesky workers wanting to afford to survive, and not those who refuse to function unless they’re exploiting others…
Makes perfect sense, “economist”… 🙄😂
And should be given welfare check.
Or UBI as we seemed to agree on other part of the thread. Either of these are better solutions than minimum wage.
Minimum wage works. Here is an article from the german newspaper FAZ (leans economically right) that presents a study that shows the low income sector has shrunk since the implementation of minimum wages.
Germany before had one of the biggest low income sectors in the western world.
And no, the unemployment rate did not skyrocket. In fact, Germany is as close to full employment as it gets.
Good counterpoint, thanks for that.
You are not entitled workers just because you started a business. Pay them well or don’t run a business
Yes, that’s what happens in a minimum wage environment, although not every single time like people have shown in these threads. But when somebody doesn’t start a business, that’s invisible.
What is visible is when an existing business’s costs rise above the minimum wage level. There are plenty of reasons why this could happen, 9/10 of them not being “the C-levels are paid too much”. That’s when they start firing people or just go under which essentially fires everyone.
Perhaps we want a society that don’t have employment for the people who can only work below a minimum wage level. That’s some sort of a decision, I just want to be honest about making that decision.
It doesn’t even happen a statistically significant number of times, you’re just parrotting what executives want you to believe, believing they know what’s best for you
Removed by mod
You clearly don’t have more than a basic education in economics if you’re peddling debunked bullshit.
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These folks seem to have a different understanding than you.
Specifically:
I’m afraid that it’s really only a tiny bit more than basic education. Empiric studies refuted the negative effect of minimum wage on employment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4epQSbu2gYQ
That video does give good arguments, but to suggest that this is not a controversial issue in economics is perhaps a bit dishonest. Granted, I suppose I suggested that as well.
e: that channel’s Breadtube vs Economics series seem pretty good, thanks for the pointer. Seems like the channel is left-leaning, and this makes me doubly happy. A political left with good knowledge on economics would be a great thing.
Sorry I was a bit oversimplified. Had to get off the pooper.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=4epQSbu2gYQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
You clearly don’t have even a basic education in economics. There’s enough data across a variety of jurisdictions and history at this point to establish the effectiveness of the minimum wage.youre choosing to ignore that and simp for managers and capital owners.
deleted by creator
If they can’t pay the minimum wage they should not exist
Well there’s your problem: neoclassical / neoliberal / Chicago School economics, which has become hegemonic in universities around the capitalist world, is garbage.
deleted by creator
Good for your family I guess. Now study cybernetics.
Is that why it seems you have negative wage?
This is a perfect example of traditional neoliberal rhetoric, attributing success solely to individual effort and downplaying structural obstacles. It operates under the assumption that everyone has equal opportunities for success, which is simply not the case. This ideology perpetuates the existence of a low-wage sector for those who may not have had access to the same educational opportunities, such as migrants, single parents, and others facing systemic barriers. The American Dream, often touted as a symbol of success through hard work, is a myth perpetuated by neoliberalism. It is important not to buy into the narrative that one’s circumstances are solely their own fault. Statistics show that social mobility is much lower in the US compared to many European countries, which further disproves the idea that hard work alone guarantees success.
This got me chubbed up. Preach, Chad.
Precisely this. People are taught by the wealthy class to devalue certain jobs because they are deemed “lesser than,” and that the people that occupy those jobs are “not worthy” of a living wage, benefits, a stable living situation, respect, and more. This systematic dehumanization prevents us from realizing the true harms that working class people of all backgrounds are experiencing. Of course, the harms are compounded if you identify as a woman, a person of color, a queer person, as having a disability, or if you don’t speak the native language.
Environmental Justice is what we need - a sense of community, mutual support, and a collective realization of past harms that have been baked into every policy, from the local to the federal level. These harmful policies have to be disrupted and dismantled, which can only be possible through education and action. The more people that engage in collective action under the banner of Environmental Justice, the better chance we have of really making meaningful, positive change.
/rant
Wow. Let’s come back to reality for a moment.
There are millions out there that cannot afford to make themselves employable. They work long hours, possibly two jobs, plus a hustle just to not make enough for ends to meet. How do they go back to school? Learn a trade?
I am one of them, except I haven’t found my hustle yet. I work 40+ hours each week, but I take home so little. I was able to make rent two days ago, for last months rent. I have to hold off on a one of my meds, because paying rent took precedent over everything else, again. People like me don’t give a shit about programs that cannot help us in the short term. We already know our long term: work until we die, with nothing to show for it.
We could turn down the heat, so that the frogs might be able to escape their boiling fate? No, let’s design a better pot that won’t boil the frogs. The ones in there now won’t make it, but their progeny will also likely…not make it.
You ought to check yourself before you call what can be a major relief for millions, stupid. Seriously.
This is actually pure bullshit, by the way! Minimum wage is proven to be beneficial.
The solution is UBI.
Both
Sure, it is my fault that even though there is enough food and most of the farming is automated, I still need to work for it because I don’t own the land. We shouldn’t ask them to fix it for us, they never will. We need to take control of the land that feeds us.
I don’t know you, but I can guess: it’s almost never the individual’s fault. But we should still look for efficient solutions, not populist non-solutions.
UBI is very efficient. Efficient for the working class, not so much for the capitalists.
I agree on UBI. That would be a good solution.
Lmmfao, so you’re against minimum wage claiming it’s a non-solution (and also that some workers must gain further education to even “deserve” it) while advocating UBI, which is a solution on the exact same level as minimum wage is - the level that still allows capitalists to exploit the labour of others for profit (except with UBI, it is the government compensating them from the tax pot, either way, it’s working people paying the highest price - freedom).
Never mind that the meme doesn’t offer it up as a solution to anything, but more of a bare minimum that neither democrats nor republicans will give, because, and this is the point the meme is actually making which seems to have gone completely over your head - both democrats and republicans work for capitalism, not you.
Truth is, you’re just here to flex your “economist” muscles, but instead you’re just spewing clueless yet confident incorrectness all over the place… 😂
deleted by creator