This is really hard for me but I have had to put my foot down in recent times. It still makes me uncomfortable but I just can’t support this anymore. If I’m sitting down at a restaurant with a server I tip 20 - 25% but I’m tired of tipping for takeout and I absolutely refuse to give extra when checking out at a store.
20-25% is still pretty excessive. I try to stay around 10-15%.
We have let tips creep up a lot in recent years.
Tips have crept up because cost of living has crept up but minimum wage has not. People can’t live on 2.25 plus tips and 7.25 if you don’t make enough tips to be more than 7.25. It’s just insultingly low wages and impossible to live off of
Tip value sure, but tip percentage? I mean think about it, the price of the food will go up, so the percent of that elevated food price will also go up. Like, if I bought a $20 meal and tipped 15%, that’s a $3. But if because of inflation or whatever, the $20 meal increases its price to $40, a 15% tip is now $6. The tip has gone up, but the percentage has remained the same.
So why are tips now going up to 21, 23, 25, hell I’ve seen a tablet that suggested 30%? (We all know the answer why, I’m being rherorical.)
As funnystuff stated in the other reply, since food prices have gone up, tip amounts have gone up as well.
The two main reasons I see that tip percentages have crept up is the social pressure to not be the one that tips “poorly” and that automated prompt with suggested tips.
Those end up in a feedback loop. If you’re standing next to someone and the tip options are 15, 18, and 20 percent, there is a social pressure not to tip the lowest amount. It’s the same where if there are 3 wines on the menu, the cheap, the reasonable, and the expensive. Most people won’t buy the cheapest option. The cheapest option is there to pressure you into the middle one. Well, now that they have that, why not slowly increase the suggested amount to 18, 20, 22. Or like we are seeing in a lot of places now. 20, 25, and 30.
What sucks is that there are no repurcussions for businesses that suggest these larger percentages. Nor are there any for businesses that traditionally are not tipped to display the screen as well. Not until we either pass legislation to regulate tipping prompts or collectively refuse to purchase services from these businesses.
I understand what you’re saying, and agree it’s impossible to live on minimum wage in a big chunk of the country. However, tips are already pegged to inflation. If food gets twice as expensive, your 20% also doubles. For folks like Teachers, they might be lucky to get a 1 or 2% cost of living adjustment each year. That’s waaaaaaaaaay below inflation, and just falls further and further behind, like the base minimum wage.
That doesn’t explain why the tips in percentage increased. The cost of the meal at the restaurant is probably also related to the costs of living…
We’re talking percentages. There’s no reason why the percentages should have crept up when cost of living has gone up considering prices have risen along with the rest of cost of living.
Fuck it. 15 percent tops for me. This 20-25% for a tip? Fuck that.
Luckily in my state minimum wage is $15.74 plus tips.
Good god how do you write that all out and not realize the problem is the OWNERS, not the customers.
The OWNERS are the ones responsible for paying good wages. Start pointing your finger at the right people.
Of course it’s the employers responsibility to provide good wages, I never said otherwise. All I said is the minimum wage of literally $2 if you’re tipped is ridiculous
Yeah, at server rates in most areas if they get less than 20 percent tip they are losing money.
That’s the golden number for me, but only if I eat in the damn place, not takeout. I also tip gas station employees only when they calibrate my tires or wipe my windows.
Honestly I dont use percentages unless the meal is insanely expensive. I never tip at something as simple as a coffee shop or quick-dine-and-go thing (unless I’m a regular). Otherwise they get 5, 10, or 20 depending on service and food (regardless of total meal cost). My favorite places always get a little extra (5 -> 7, 10-> 15, 20 -> 25)
In my opinion:
0% = absolutely abysmal service
10% = below average service
15% = average, expected amount of service 20% = above average or excellent serviceThat’s my tipping policy.
Why would you tip for before average service?
Not tipping at all is seen as rude in the US culture.
Besides, there’s a difference between below average service and absolutely horrible service. For example, there was one time years ago at a restaurant where my family went out to eat. First, our waiter got my mom’s order wrong. Then, when she mentioned it to our waiter, he picked up the incorrect item off the plate with his hands. I’m sure there’s more that I’m forgetting as it was years ago, but I think our entire meal (five people) ended up being comped. We were not happy.
Same. It gets a little skewed towards higher % at lower dollar amounts though. I might have a $8 meal with a water and leave $2. It’s worth more than $1 and I’m not messing with change.
This is my policy if it’s a sit-down restaurant with servers making minimum wage… I absolutely refuse to tip fast food. Because I work in fast food, and over time I’ve seen wages get more and more skewed towards dependence on tips. It’s insane. Just give us a living wage, is that too much to ask of this capitalist meat grinder?
Same. The point of a tip is to tip the waiter, not anyone else. Tipping someone who’s taking my order at the counter just seems weird. Same with tipping in a mobile order app.
15% was standard in Canada, 20% in the USA
52, American. 15% was always standard in my world until recent talk of 20%.
Yep, 20% is definitely NOT standard. It is too damn high. I give 20% only when a server is freaking amazing.
Really? I was always told Canadians pass as being cheap because we usually give 15% when we go to the USA 🤔
I remember 5-10% being standard when I was a kid, although I wasn’t the one paying.
It’s intended to make you feel guilty. That’s the point. “Make someone feel uncomfortable enough to give you money.” Don’t give in. Stay strong.
And 15% for table service is absolutely fine.
What about at a coffee shop or something similar?
I don’t go to coffee shops but I wouldn’t tip there either. I don’t think I should be responsible for paying employees a living wage. Charge me appropriately for the item and pay your fucking employees.
Cash is the answer here, I might leave 25p in the saucer.
I agree that’s how it should be, but how things should be doesn’t pay the bills. Don’t take your anger out on the employees. Those are the only people you’re hurting.
And don’t put the blame on the customer. Demand better wages. I’m not taking it out on anyone.
You not tipping is not at all the same thing as demanding better wages and you know it.
First of all, I don’t go to coffee shops which is what we were talking about so the point is moot. Second, the fact that you seem to think it is the customer in the wrong and not the employers shows just how brain washed you are by corporations. People have been unionizing and striking across the country for living wages and that is the answer, not shaming the customer. Wake up.
Jesus fucking christ my dude. Not going to coffee shops is a valid option, but since you apparently haven’t noticed there are not yet living wages in most of the country. Either don’t use the services or tip until there are. Have some goddamn class solidarity and don’t force people to work for your benefit for poverty wages until things get better. Don’t pretend your greed is socialism.
This is very occasionally popping up in restaurants in Australia. Whether you live here or travelling. Do not tip unless they did something incredible. I’m talking the fish brought your grandma back to life and the chef reconnected you with your long lost father. We don’t want to encourage tipping culture. We want to increase minimum wage. It’s like $23 now and we need that to keep growing with the economy.
Fight it.
It’s bled into Canada like that as well and now it’s an expected thing in food service.
Cabs ask for tip here now. We have Pizza Delight out here with mandatory 15% tip after tax on thier buffet.
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Fairly certain it says “xx gratuity will be added to all delivery orders”, so it isn’t really hidden, just obscure until final check out.
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$23 is the national no award minimum, but the restaurant award mandates $29 for even a level 1 casual.
In America you can break your back at a fancy restaurant and they’re legally allowed to pay you like less than $5 because of tipping culture, or you can work fast food and they’re legally allowed to pay you $7.25 and you will never get tips. I’m amazed every day I wake up that we haven’t begun another revolution.
$29 minimum!? ($18.40 in USD). In my state it’s $7.50 (USD), and most fast food workers like me get $11 after tips…
Edit: For my line of work and hours it’s $11 and $12.70 on weekends in Australia (converted to USD)… Still a bit more than most fast food workers get in the U.S…
We also have free healthcare. You Americans are getting shafted from so many directions
I’m seriously considering immigrating elsewhere when I’ve finished university… It’s nearly unlivable here.
Do as soon as you can if you want to - coming back is often an option. It’s a lot more difficult to courage up to later on life, when you tend to have much more connections and emotions to whatever you’re about to leave.
It’s not always a bad thing to stay, of course, people have their reasons to both proceed with emigration and shaking it off, but it’s much easier the sooner you go with it.
Thank you. I vaguely remember almost 30 but can’t remember what context that was so didn’t want to overstate.
Yeah I always try to bring up our award to shut down the “but the well tipped waiters will lose money if you mandate a minimum wage” argument.
As though a minimum wage has to stay $7.
Our waitstaff get $35/hr on weekends and somehow we still have enough small cafes to bankrupt Starbucks.
Even if they did something incredible don’t tip because you paid $30 for avocado on toast anyway.
I think that one that is angry about paying 30 for avocado toast should make their own for five bucks and tip themselves.
I mean, that’s on you for agreeing to pay $30 for an avocado on toast.
I’m against (forced) tipping culture but the waiter is not at fault for the prices a restaurant sets up. If I saw the price and still decided to order it, I will definitely not fault the waiter for it.
Waiters that give great services gets tipped because I want to encourage waiters to give great service.
Tipping culture is capitalists telling workers it’s their fault for not making enough money. It’s true though, because workers don’t organize nearly enough to change the culture. People should stick up for themselves and their fellow employees and demand a better wage and benefits.
Capitalize the profits and socialize the losses
And then have the media (Wall Street Journal and Readers Digest especially) tell everybody that yes, tipping everybody everywhere is the new normal and we need to get used to it.
I’ve gotten into so many arguments on Facebook with people who tip their mechanics and doctors. People are eating this shit up.
This is exactly how it feels
That’s why you look them dead in the eye as you do it.
“I know exactly what I’m doing, and if you’ve got a problem with your pay, go talk to your boss.”
I recently had a pretty crappy experience at a restaurant for a few reasons, the last being their tipping system. You won’t believe how they asked me to tip, it was mad.
- There was no menu, I had to Google their name and find their website (which was some obscure subdomain on some obscure food payment site).
- Their site didn’t work in Chrome (on any of the phones we had with us), luckily I had a backup browser installed that worked.
- I had to order and pay on my phone, unable to use the cash I had budgeted and brought with me for the meal.
- It asked me how much I would like to tip, but this is paying DURING MY ORDER, when I had not yet received any service or food. I chose not to tip.
Tipping, here in the UK, is only something you do when you were very happy with the service (and have the extra cash you don’t mind giving away as charity, basically). Our waiters, as with every worker in the country, are paid a real wage that isn’t designed to be subsidised by begging.
So, being asked to tip for the good service BEFORE receiving the service? That’s INSANE.
Due to the various ridiculous issues we had just trying to order food and pay for it, and the audacity of being asked to tip that way, I will not be going back there again.
What’s wrong with the tried and true system of a waiter taking your order, you eat, they take your payment at the table either with a normal wireless chip-and-pin machine or by cash, and then you leave? It’s simple, easy, smooth and fast 🤦♀️
Yeah, that tipping before service idea has to be costing business. There are several places I avoid because they request tip before service. My local Foxtail coffee shop is one of those places, and the lowest tip option is 15%. On the 3 times I have tipped, they still gave me subpar service. Like, they didn’t even do the bare minimum, let alone anything exceptional.
Of course - what’s the incentive? They got the tip money without having to do anything.
I was assuming that they would have a commitment to earning that tip because of personal integrity and that they would expect to receive more tips in the future when I return.
I understand where you are coming from, but haven’t there been locales in the past where you tipped before service to let your server know you are magnanimous?
I could be wrong, but I swear I read this in a European travel guide from the late 90s.
I occasionally go to a liquor store where the till asks if you want to tip, and it’s the most ridiculous thing ever because it’s a small store and the clerk isn’t helping you find shit.
and the clerk is paid more than the $2.whatever per hour that sit down restaurant wait staff get.
In this specific instance, not much more, because I live in one of the few states where the minimum wage is the same for tipped and untipped workers (although gig drivers are still getting screwed here).
Reminder for everyone that when there are efforts to change the system and have employers pay higher wages instead, the majority of workers are vehemently against it.
You’ll see people in this thread telling you that it’s not the workers’ fault, and that taking it out on the workers by not tipping is not fair, as if they’re victims of the system.
Most pressure to maintain the system (or add tips to new industries) comes from the workers, and I feel that not tipping is entirely appropriate if you want it to change.
When the workers themselves start clamoring for raising wages and getting rid of tipping culture, I will empathize with them more.
People don’t want to constantly pay more fees in the form of “voluntary” tips that are supposed to be a courtesy based on service quality, not a tax and payroll dodge for employees and employers who obviously have no incentive to report cash income like this. And now even more people are jumping on the tip bandwagon, and on top of that they calculate the tip on the total including tax. I’m not giving the government a tip, too. Tips are becoming compulsory in the eyes of far too many service industry employees.
It’s far easier for them to shit on customers than it is to assume any risks associated with fighting employers and the established system for real wages. Leeching off the hard work wages of customers rather than doing the hard work of fighting for a real wage.
Checkout this clear bullshit.
They charge more after you order to give you the impression your paying less because the menu looks cheap…
That’s amazing.
"Look how cheap our prices are!*
*before we inflate them with an involuntary fee"
What the bullshit is that? We’re charging you more so you pay less?
Maybe they are pushing for higher tips because they aren’t paid enough?
Exactly; they know they get more in tips than they would with minimum wage. It is very low right now.
Yeah so what I’m saying is if they got paid enough, same or more than what they’re getting with tips, we wouldn’t need to tip.
Not tomorrow either. Flashing that in front of me doesn’t mean I’m tipping you for grabbing a donut 6feet away from you and putting it in a bag. That’s literally your job. Charge me the amount it costs for the item and your labor don’t try to prey on my charitabilty. I use those feelings to distribute the limited extra I have to give to research for sick kids, educational charities, housing initiatives, and anti-gun lobbyists. Fuck if you’re anywhere near those categories donut slinger. Tell your boss to fuck himself for even putting that shit in front of customers.
As a weed smoker for something like 25 years who has spent his time doing a lot of studying of the science because I understand that it is not an inert substance, and I know its affecting my health long-term somehow…
I’ve seen the studies that have shown specific strains have more to do with different “highs” than whether it is indica or sativa (nevermind that there is no such thing as a true indica anymore.), do you have any idea how I feel when some fucking twentysomething starts telling me about the (bogus) differences between sativa and indica and expects me to give a shit when all I care about is potency.
Like sorry, you’re not getting a tip for knowing less than me, some bum off the street, about the stuff I’m putting in my body.
Pure indicas no longer exist? And strains are more important?
Would love to read more if you could point me in the right direction.
You really, really wouldn’t want to smoke a pure indica, imo. I’ve smoked an actual indica and it was mostly stem and tasted like dirt. It has not had the selective breeding that has produced big, oily buds that people love to smoke.
It’s honestly a lot like corn before it was selectively bred by humans for thousands of years versus modern corn. Imagine that the modern corn is a modern weed bud, and compare that to what nature gave us…
Here’s a good scientific study on it:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0133292
From the Abstract:
Using 14,031 single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) genotyped in 81 marijuana and 43 hemp samples, we show that marijuana and hemp are significantly differentiated at a genome-wide level, demonstrating that the distinction between these populations is not limited to genes underlying THC production. We find a moderate correlation between the genetic structure of marijuana strains and their reported C. sativa and C. indica ancestry and show that marijuana strain names often do not reflect a meaningful genetic identity. We also provide evidence that hemp is genetically more similar to C. indica type marijuana than to C. sativa strains.
That last bit from the abstract is the money quote on Indica. Real Indicas are closer to hemp, and hemp hasn’t been selectively bred for flavor and getting high. So a “real” Indica is going to be a lot like smoking… hemp.
Anyway, long story short is that individual strains and the chemical combinations therein have more influence over the high you get than the idea that they’re “sativa” or “indica.”
Here’s an article with a short interview with Sean Myles, who was involved in and credited with this study.
https://slate.com/technology/2019/04/indica-sativa-difference-cannabis-weed-science.html
You seem really mad at the person behind the counter, perhaps instead consider being mad at the millionaires and billionaires in charge that decided to make it this way.
Not mad at them, just not impressed enough to pay beyond the asking price. I don’t have a sense of guilt or obligation about it. When possible I would urge people to choose jobs that pay fairly and don’t support this awful system. I fully understand that’s easier said then done (I’ve been there myself). I don’t even really blame the millionaires. We all have at least a touch of greed in us, some more than others, and any system that allows this to get to crazy proportions will foster this kind of nonsense. The answer isn’t to just make Millionaires feel bad until they stop this - that’s not going to happen. The answer is legislation that recognizes that tip culture is wrong on so many levels, that most of the world manages to keep it in check and that in the US laws are needed to curb this insanity. In the meantime, people are able to swing culture shifts and it’s up to all of us to start saying enough is enough to tip culture and as much as possible spend our money at places that aren’t capitalizing on charity to pay their employees. Recognize the racism and sexism in this practice and treat it like the dirty thing it is.
It’s getting ridiculous though like even gas stations are starting to ask. Like sorry why should I leave a tip to get a Snickers and bottle of water rung up?
I have no problem tipping wait staff or bartenders for the service, but I’ll be damned if the cashier at my local Chinese restaurant is getting a tip because they handed me a bag of carryout food I ordered online… tipping has definitely gotten out of control.
I partially blame the POS programmers that have that option for the take out counter, then especially so for the managers that implement it
With this little change, you might think you’re supplementing their minimum wage pay, but the owner can lower their pay to the “federal tipped minimum” in some states. You basically just make it cheaper for the owner in the long run (they’re probably sold on this by the Point Of Sale software company), and the workers can get little or no extra money.
I feel you on that, but I’m in California so that’s not the case here. I think owners/companies are just able to pitch counter help to job hunters as $x/hr plus tips, and people feel compelled to tip when prompted on the screen while the counter person stares them down.
Tip functionality is a business decision that comes from the top. The Devs have no say in whether a feature is included or not, and dislike it as much as you do.
Oh for sure, I was talking more of the small independent shops, but I probably should’ve specified owners instead of managers
If you’re serving me alcohol (or something similar) at a bar, you get $1 per drink. If you’re taking my order at a table and bringing me food, you get 15%. That’s it.
One more reason I would hate to live in America. In Britain we don’t give tips.
There’s a street food hall place in Manchester where you can only order via an app and some food businessess force you to pay a “tip” while ordering your food. Can pay 5, 10 or 15%.
Who the fuck do they think is going to willingly pay more than they have to? It’s blatantly a service charge, you don’t give tips before you’ve even ordered your food.
laughs in American
You don’t give tips you mean, plenty of people I know do.
What? No, we might not tip our petrol station attendants or barmaids, but it’s still been normal to tip table service for at least 30 years.
It’s more normal in fancy places, or where you genuinely want to thank a server for above and beyond service. But it’s not expected, you’re not rude for not doing it, and you don’t do it for just any old outting.
I’ll tip a bartender who mixes me a drink with 3+ ingredients that’s not on their drink list, I’ll tip the server who painstakingly reviews the menu with our table to make sure we don’t have issues with allergies, I’ll tip the barista who rushes over with a cloth to help me after I accidentally knocked over my whole coffee who tried to make me a second coffee on the house. Because that’s excellent service and tipping is just an excellent way of saying thank you.
But those are exceptions to the rule.
Yea, I meant we don’t tip in Britain as a matter of course but sure if I’ve received excellent service I might. I am a bit of a tight-arse though, not going to lie, so it’s rare.
No, no it isn’t.
Tipping still happens rarely, and only as a bonus for excellent service. Nobody expects you to tip. So in >80% of the time you don’t.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. While we typically don’t tip, you can go to most food places with table service and gratuity is either automatically added, or is an option when you pay.
It’s definitely appearing as an option more on the pos terminals now that most people prefer to pay contactless rather than cash. I’ve only had one occasion where the gratuity was automatically added (ironically, on an occasion I would not tip because the service negatively impacted my meal and I had to strike it out) perhaps I’ve just been lucky.
What annoys me isn’t that they ask for a tip, it’s how much they ask. I’m willing to round up to the nearest dollar if the service was good, but those little iPads always seem to ask for at least 15%. I am not giving a 15% tip to someone who only pressed buttons on a tablet.
This was so weird in the US. Everywhere you get asked for a tip. I got a tip screen even in a supermarket once. For the cashier. I got back home to the EU today and was happy to not tip anymore everywhere…
It’s the Square checkouts and the other new POS like them. I’m pretty sure Square takes a chunk of the tip which is why they’re enabled by default (and I’m not sure you can disable them).
I don’t tip, but that’s achieved by never doing anything where tipping is expected.
I pre-ordered a pair of shoes online and the website asked for a tip.
In Australia.
name and shame mate
Jennens, they’re platform shoes to give me a few extra inches in height.
Guess “name and shame” might be particularly accurate here
bruh didn’t meant to put you on the spot. no shame though, get those lifts - the boots look nice.
still incredibly fucked for a web retailer of any kind to even have a tipping option, let alone for clothing. like what am I paying extra for? the privilege of browsing your fucking stock?
Just wait until you get a tip prompt on a self-checkout kiosk.
😬
Yeah, it’s happened to me a couple of times.
That’s when you tip yourself for your diligent work bagging groceries by not scanning a thing or two.
You mean robotip?
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“No, thank you.” is my go to.
For real. I place an order, you hand me food. I am not paying extra because you typed an order in your computer and you handed me food. And they still look at you like you kicked a kitten at some places.
In Seattle, it’s pretty obvious if they’re going to ask for a tip so you can plan for it. They’re actually outgoing and nice to you, lol. I know that trick!
“You too”
"Yes, can I get a discount "
Over here in the UK we don’t tip as a rule, unless we’ve been directly served by someone, and even then it’s mostly just to leave whatever change there may be.
But it’s become very fucking common for chain shops to ask if we want to round up to the nearest £ and donate that money to whichever charity they’re working with.
And my answer is always, always, no.
Why not if it is a charity? I’m guessing you’re not trusting them?
Because it just doesn’t feel right to me. And I know that it’s kinda churlish, but there’s a part of me that doesn’t want huge supermarket chains who keep posting record profits while paying the bare minimum they legally have to, to take the credit for me donating a few quid a month in rounding up my bill. Many of the charities wouldn’t be needed as much if these companies actually paid adequate wages.
I might be wrong but don’t they use these charities to get tax reductions?
I don’t think they do, but I’ve seen them announce things like " company name teamed up with x charity and we managed $200,000 !"
Conveniently forgetting to mention that they donated little to nothing themselves.
Do what you want, but that’s not how that works. Businesses aren’t “using” or “taking” your donation or claiming them as their own. They’re basically just serving as a collection point for whatever charity indicated. If you choose not to claim it yourself, that’s your choice, but the donation is “from” you “to” the charity. The supermarket or whatever just provides visibility for the charity and the collections logistics. It saves those charities having to find people to stand outside and ring a bell and hope you have change in your pocket.
If you’re not contributing to a charity in lieu of not participating in these “round up donations” programs, then you’re simply choosing to not donate to charity. Which is fine, as far as that goes.
Oh aye, I know they’re not claiming tax or anything like that, and I get that it’s essentially just a digital version of having a change pot on the counter, but it still feels like Tesco getting to crow about how much their customers have helped raise, while they’re paying as little as they can legally get away with, y’know?
But ultimately it’s not really rational response, and I know that.
I get you. I basically swing back and forth between how you feel, “hell with this corporate public image campaign” and going “well, what the hell, it’s .12 for a good cause.”
That way I’m being irrational in all directions.
Charity donations are tax deductible (usually) so what you’re doing is giving the business a means to bring down their contributions for the year. It’d really be best if you just donated directly.
No. That’s not how that works.
Deductible means they don’t pay taxes on the money they donated
It does nothing to reduce the tax burden on their profits, if the money they’re donating wouldn’t have been profit in the first place
